2010 kia optima

[crtaitt]

i just bought a 2010 kia optima auto tranmission.  the manual says that the auto transmission shouldnt tow but i wanted to ask peoples opinions in here. i have a 1200pound dry weight camper. the only additional thing in it is an air conditioner. the manual says that only the manual transmission should tow and its ratings are 1000 pounds without trailer brakes and 2000 pounds with trailer brakes.  do you suggest that i just not tow with this vehicle?

[phil-l]

Since no one else has chimed in...

Personally, I'm a big fan of towing appropriate trailers with properly equipped cars and other non-truck/SUV vehicles. The US market doesn't seem to recognize the towing value of such vehicles - but you should see what the rest of the world tows with what are considered small-to-mid-size sedans here in the US. Many cars and minivans have characteristics that make good tow platforms: A long wheelbase with a low center of gravity and short rear overhang - which are coincidentally three areas in which many SUVs are deficient. Proper towing equipment, vehicle suspension design, braking, transmission and engine also come into play.

Interestingly, your Kia is made by Hyundai - whose car offerings in the US have been notable in that they often come with generous towing specifications. This is in contrast with some makers who sell the same car in both the US and Europe - but print lower towing specs in the US than in Europe. I suspect our legal environment has something to do with this entertaining phenomenon. So the Hyunai Elantra made a splash a few years ago by making Edmund's "Top 10 Vehicles for Towing" list, due it being the only sedan in its class with a 3K+ pound (when properly equipped) towing capacity:

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/102426/article.html

Your Optima is a corporate sibling to the Hyundai Sonata (which is one size above the Elantra). So I find your statement that owner's manual doesn't recommend *any* towing with the automatic transmission to be surprising. I couldn't find any on-line resources to confirm that claim (I'd appreciate links if you have them). Note that, for some vehicles, the opposite is true: The automatic will get a *higher* tow rating than than the manual (though the dearth of manual transmissions in the US means there really aren't many examples of either case). In my understanding, this is because the automatic transmission's torque converter allow slip that could otherwise damage a transmission - and the automatic has a circulating fluid system to which an auxiliary cooler can be added, reducing the chance of damage due to heat. Most manual transmissions have neither of these characteristics.

My apologies for a long-winded background exploration.

Back to your question: If the manual strictly says that the automatic transmission shouldn't be used for towing, I'd listen to them. It's an unusual claim, and there's likely a specific reason for it (Possibly unrelated example: CVTs - continuously variable transmissions - have been occasionally popular in a few vehicles in recent years, but with uncertain long-term reliability, OEMs have been reluctant to encourage people to tow with them). But I'd take another, very close look at your manual, and perhaps a stop to talk to your local dealer: It may actually state that the automatic transmission shouldn't be used for towing applications *unless* an auxiliary transmission cooler is added. This is a far more common situation - and a situation you need to bring to resolution before considering anything else.

Further items to consider, since you referenced them in the original post: I'm a big believer in trailer brakes and recommend them on all but the smallest utility trailers. Yes, brakes can be added to trailers that don't have them. Want to learn more? See my trailer brake project pictures, linked below. Also, beware of trailer "dry weight" ratings. You'd be surprised at what other features (propane tanks, awnings, etc.) aren't included in that rating - and how quickly that weight adds up when you add food, clothing and "stuff". Go to a scale and get the trailer weighed.

 

[MicroCamper]

Like Phil, I'm also a fan of towing with vehicles that most Americans consider to be inappropriate.

Since the owners manual doesn't entirely prohibit towing for the car, just the transmission, I don't think I would risk it.  There are some small, ultralight campers out there that would probably be OK, but watch out for frontal area and overall wind drag as well as weight.

I've towed with vehicles that were not recommended for towing, but I wasn't towing a "typical" camper.  If you were talking about a motorcycle camper, like our Roll-A-Home, I'd say to go for it, but with a standard size (width) pup... I don't think I would.

[crtaitt]

well here is a pdf file of the owners manual.  http://www.kia.ca/content/Owners/OwnersManual/MY10_Magentis_EN.pdf.  here is another place that i found that it says towing capacity to be 2000. http://autos.aol.com/cars-Kia-Optima-2010/specs/. i have the LX sedan. and the dry weight of the camper is pretty much the actual weight. it doesn't have an awning and it only has 1 propane tank that doesn't weigh that much from what the owners manual says and i don't put anything in it when we go camping, i usually pack everything in the tow vehicle or another vehicle. 

[phil-l]

Clickable link:

http://www.kia.ca/content/Owners/OwnersManual/MY10_Magentis_EN.pdf

For those who are curious, see page 5-48 (PDF page number 240).

The owner's manual recommends *no* trailer towing for automatic transmission equipped cars with the 2.4 liter engine. Cars with the 2.7 liter engine and an automatic (or the 2.4 liter and a manual) can tow up to 2000 pounds, when the trailer has brakes.

[crtaitt]

yes i saw that. that is why i wanted to ask on the forum. cause i wanted to make sure i was reading that right.  which unfortunately doesnt help me :(.  i will have to borrow a car/truck in order to go camping now.  the reason i bought the vehicle before i looked at the owners manual is because all the places i looked said max towing was 2000lbs, so i figured that meant properly equiped (ie trailer hitch, brakes, tranny cooler, etc).  Guess i am a little sol on that...

[HappiKampers!]

IF you should decide to go against the manual and equip your Optima to tow, you may be voiding your 10 year 100,000 warranty.....just throwing it out there.

I have an Hyundai Elantra that I could equip to tow our camper.  I asked the dealer when I bought it if I would void my bumper-to-bumper warranty if I towed with it.  I was told no (he showed me a print-out of the weight capacities), but if I purchased a vehicle in which the manufacturer recommended against it (like the Hyundai Accent) and something happened as a result of that action, that repair may not be covered.  Though I never plan on towing with my Elantra, it's nice to know that if I had to, I could.

[phil-l]

Particularly given that you've got a long-term warranty to consider, I'd recommend against towing with this vehicle.

If you didn't have a warranty, it might be worth doing some research to learn the specifics of the transmission issue. Many cars use essentially the same automatic transmission for 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder versions of the same car. However, the tow rating chart for this car implies that there are significant differences in the automatic transmissions between the differing engines. It could be that even a generously-sized auxiliary transmission cooler wouldn't prevent damage in your car. I wouldn't risk it.

Another approach: Stop by your Kia dealer and explain your situation. Who knows: If you hit them at the right time of their sales month, or with the right set of incentives, maybe you could trade in for a 4 cylinder manual or 6 cylinder automatic without too much money out of pocket. Your car may still new enough that it isn't too far down the depreciation curve. It'd be cool to find out that the dealer is having a hard time getting rid of a 2010 4 cylinder manual on the used lot that somehow showed up as a trade-in. You won't find out if you don't ask.

Yet another approach: Save the Kia for commuting, etc. Buy a beater vehicle with a decent tow capacity. Hint: Many minivans would have no problem with your PU - and you can get quite of bit of transportation value for your dollar in the used minivan market. Plus it won't bug you when you come home with a muddy vehicle after an awesome camping weekend.

And yet another approach: Find a good camping buddy who already has a TV...

[MicroCamper]

Guess i am a little sol on that...

Well, it just depends on how small and light you are willing to go with a camper.  Our Roll-A-Home http://www.rollahome.com/ was designed to be pulled with a motorcycle.  The empty weight of mine is a bit heavy at 400 pounds and it has a max weight of 750 pounds.  (My camper was built by the previous owner of the company and I think it's unusually heavy.)  Anyway, with a camper like this, you can reduce the total trailer weight to a load that would be acceptable as trunk cargo.

Our Roll-A-Home has a king size bed, a carpeted elevated floor (rather than a ground cloth), air conditioning, and a surprisingly large storage area.  It's upgraded tent camping, but it's off the ground.

Like your Kia, our 2005 Honda Civic owner's manual allows for *NO* towing at all.  However, when I called Honda of America's customer service department and was told that towing our little camper would not be a problem at all.  It's just too light and has too little frontal area to matter.  It's so small that only the very back edge of the camper can be seen in the rear-view mirror over the trunk lid, and it can't be seen in the side mirrors unless you're turning.

Kia may feel differently about it, or you may not be willing to go quite this light, but a motorcycle camper is a valid option.  There are several styles available, but you have to search the internet to find them.

[Road Ruler]

It would be ideal to find out more about the specific tanny in this vehicle.   Why has it been black listed?  What other vehicles is it used in and what are they towing?  Phil, myself, and others have done some surfing on this but the info must be somewhere.

My G35 tranny is a Jatco and I have found much info on it by googling their and associated sites.  Need to find the builder of the Kia optima tranny and perhaps go at it from that angle.

An interesting footnote...  My sister's BMW Z3 uses a GM automatic transmission so you never know what you are going to find in a vehicle these days.

[weebl]

If it is a 4 speed slushbox, it is likely a Mitsubishi/Hyundai unit, and a good transmission from what I've found online (helped my brother research his new Rondo before he bought).  If it is a 6 speed, that is a new Hyundai/Kia transmission, it just came out so there's no data on it.

Whether you can or can't tow in reality shouldn't be an issue right now.  Your manual states no towing, and if you do so, you risk voiding your warranty.  Hyundia/Kia are warranty sticklers, so I don't recommend it.

[crtaitt]

ok i found something else out about the car.  the automatic v6 seems to have the same transmission as the 4-cyl, as for what i can find online at least.  the manual in the car says that the automatic v6 can tow up to 2k pounds.  here is a webpage that states that the 4-cyl has a towing capacity of 2k pounds- http://www.popupexplorer.com/forum/index.php?topic=80859.0. im wondering for a flat ground and rarely towing the trailer more than 150 miles would hurt the car. cause im mostly worried about the transmission.  im actually going to call the kia dealership mon and ask them if they have the same transmission.  here is the wiki page i was looking at. although i cant find a direct link to whether they do have the same transmission or not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Optima

[saurdkraut]

Hello
I wanted to say thank you to all of you for all the input I have received regarding questions I have had on the n2u popup. Wheel bearings, furnace noise, detachable shore power were all ideas I received from this or other portals and I thank each and everyone one of you who has helped me.

I thought I would return the favor.  I found this site to be helpful regarding towing capacities http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp .

I also wanted to vent a little about towing. Our expedition set up is a TV that is 2005 VW Passat Wagon 1.8t, with no 4motion, and the PUP is a 1991 Coleman Roanoke.  There are typically two adults and two teenagers camping.  This setup works tremendously well for us.  I usually pass motorhomes, fifth wheelers and pickups with travel trailers all the while averaging around 23-25 mpg.  My towing mpg is the same as my commute mpg.  On our recent camping trip to Penrose State Park on the Kitsap peninsula in Washington State this 4th of July trip my wife and I noticed an increase in small tent trailers with TV s such as CRV and minivans.  Numerous people stopped by to look at our setup and commented on how efficient it was.

When researching towing capacities for my choices of TV’s I ran into all sorts of opinions.  The Passat owners manual states the wagon in my configuration can tow 2000 lbs with trailer brakes.  The Roanoke loaded weighs 1400lbs.  Well within the limits of the vehicle.  In Europe, my same vehicle is rated for 2900 lbs with trailer brakes.
Hitches for my TV were another story.  European hitches are mounted to the frame, just as US truck hitches, and are well built were out of my price range.  US Hitches are bolted to the body and 5 mph bumper assemblies.  I opted to engineer my own and had it fabricated by a weld shop.  Hitch has a capacity of around 4000 lbs and 400 lbs TW.

Do any other folks ever wonder about these things?  Why American made trailers are are so heavy?  Why are Europeans, with their smaller cars, able to tow five person travel trailers?  Why can Americans not get European travel trailer?

[TBthwacker]

I have an 04 passat wagon as a commuter/baby hauler.  I never dreamed of it as a TV.  I have once witnessed hitch on a 01-04 wagon going directly through the rear bumper cover.  Could that have been one of those European hitches?