Weight Distributing Hitches with Bike Racks

[akamistyeyes]

I have been hauling my Coleman Cheyenne with my Sienna for years using a 12.5 inch Curt trailer ball mount draw bar with a Swagman 3 bike towing hitch mount.  As the years have gone by and the kids and their bikes have gotten bigger, I'm noticing much more drop in the rear than I'm comforable with.

I'd like to install a Weight Distributing system to bring the front of the Sienna back down.  And maybe use some air bags to help out as well.

My question is this:  Can I use this set up with a WD system, or do I need a whole new set up?  I've also looked into the Valley Trailer Hitch Mount set ups, but am concerned if I'll be able to hitch up with the bikes already loaded on the bike rack.

I'd appreciate any info.

[rmcconnell44]

I just finished a 3k trip with a Swagman 3 bike carrier hitch mount with a Coleman Sequoia and wdh.  I have used this for the past tree years with no problems at all.  I would never tow anything but a light utility trailer without the wdh.  Makes the towing experience so much easier and safer.

[akamistyeyes]

That's good news! 

Are you able to have the bikes already on the rack, then hitch up the PU?

[akamistyeyes]

Also, what WD hitch do you use?  I've looked at the Reese 350's and a few others.
Thanks again for the info!

[rmcconnell44]

I've done it both ways.  Not a problem either.  It is a little more difficult to get everything connected with the bikes in place, but not unworkable.  Chains and electrical hookup are a little more struggle only because you have to reach back under the bike tires or chain so be aware of the possibility of getting in contact with the oily chain.  If you hook up the wdh first, the whole hitch is higher off the ground which makes it easier.  You will also tend to route the safety chains properly if the wdh is in place.  On the Sequoia, the side mounted jackstand complicates the wdh mounting and is a little harder to swing out of the way once hitched, in fact, I have to install the curb side arm of the wdh while rotating the jack to travel position.  Some day, I will take the plunge and buy a new, center mount jack with removable dolly wheel so that is not an issue.
My wdh is a Reese 750.  I got it second hand and is certainly over sized for my pup but should work the same as the 350.  Price of mine was half new cost of the 350 so I couldn't pass up the deal.

[akamistyeyes]

Thanks a ton for the information!  Just what I needed to help me make my decisions.  I really try to keep things safe on the road, and this issue has been on my mind all camping season.  I want to get it taken care of before the spring '10 camping season.  I'm already counting the days!   

[thebrakeman]

The TW rating on the mini-350 is (wait for it.....) 350 lbs 
The TW of your camper is probably less than 350.  However, you need to treat the weight of the bikes and that swagman rack as effective TW.

Effective TW = Camper TW + Swagman weight + weight of all bikes

My guess is that you will not only exceed the rating of the mini-350, but also the 400 Single Bar.  If you have (for example) 300 lbs actual TW, plus 150 lbs of rack and bikes (450 total), you could end up trying to crank on a mini-350 so hard that you permanently bend the bars.  Or it could create a situation where you just can't adjust it properly.

Find out your effective/total TW.  Then get a WDH rated for that job.  This may put you into a 600 lbs Equilizer WDH kit.

PS - A properly set up WDH kit (IMO) will not need air bags.

[chipperone1]

  Okay here she goes.  Your TV in ten yrs old, what is the age/condition of the rear and even the front suspension?
Maybe it is time to do something about that before you think airbags.

 Tongue weight is the weight of the trailer that sits on the ball. That is how tongue weight is measured, from inside the coupler where the ball sits.

 If the bikes are mounted in front of the ball it is no different than cargo in the back of the truck, it is weight carried  by the hitch but it is still cargo.

 If there is no trailer there is no tongue weight as far as a WDH is concerned.

 The weight of the bikes + bike rack + tongue weight of the trailer will determine the size of the hitch that you should have on the TV

 The tongue weight of the trailer should determine the size of the WDH you use.

 BTW what is the max TW allowed for your TV?  Have you weighed your rig?
 
 Not only has the size of the bikes increased but the kids are bigger, bring more stuff (including food )

[rabird]

It matters where cargo is. From hanging off the front bumber to in the passenger area or roof top to rear of the TV's rear axle.

Reese suggest like etrailer that one size the WDH on TW and cargo rear of the axle.
Why have a system at or near its limit (cuz it includes sway control).

etrailer WDH faq

Reese, see page 303

[akamistyeyes]

Okay, here's my figures as best as I can tell.  (I haven't been able to get to a scale as I'm caring for my 94 yo Gram and we're a little house bound at the moment.)

Sienna max tongue wt:  350, with a WDH:  525

PU w/ AC:  2340, packed with 225# of food, clothes, blankets & stuff that increases to 2565.
Van curb wt:  2890, packed with 4 adults, 2 dogs and 3 bikes and 1 hitch that increases to 4730.

PU's unloaded tongue wt is 135... which is 6% of PU wt; but I have a lot of stuff in the front storage, so I figure my loaded PU tongue wt is more like 10% and therefore should be around 250#.

So tongue wt of camper, 250#,  plus 50# of hitch and 90# of bikes brings me to a tongue wt of around 420#.
This is over my van's max tongue wt without the hitch, but under the 525 tongue wt with the WDH. 
That 600 Equalizer is looking better and better. 

I now realize I REALLY need to get this thing on a scale to get hard figures. 
I thank all of you for your sound advice.

[chipperone1]

   How does Toyota recommend you calculate tongue weight? What about any car company?
 
   

[mike4947]

Like chipperone1 posted the bikes and the weight distribution hitch are CARGO for the vehicle and are NOT tongue weight. Tongue weight is only that weight supported by the ball.

[rileysown]

Like chipperone1 posted the bikes and the weight distribution hitch are CARGO for the vehicle and are NOT tongue weight. Tongue weight is only that weight supported by the ball.

Correct, but WDH numbers are not just for tongue weight, but also the weight of cargo behind the rear axle. If you think about what a WDH is doing that makes sense.

[wavery]

 

 Tongue weight is the weight of the trailer that sits on the ball. That is how tongue weight is measured, from inside the coupler where the ball sits.

 If the bikes are mounted in front of the ball it is no different than cargo in the back of the truck, it is weight carried  by the hitch but it is still cargo.

 If there is no trailer there is no tongue weight as far as a WDH is concerned.

 The weight of the bikes + bike rack + tongue weight of the trailer will determine the size of the hitch that you should have on the TV

 

That's not quite accurate.

I hate to nit-pick here but there is a factor of leverage that must be considered when mounting anything behind the bumper. The more weight that you put behind the fulcrum point (rear axle), trailer or otherwise, the more weight that is removed from the front axle. The farther back that weight is (like with a hitch extender) the more this effect is exacerbated.

One does not have to hook up a "Trailer" to exceed the "Tongue Weight" rating of the TV. If your bikes are over 350# and that is the only thing in your receiver hitch, you have already exceeded the maximum tongue weight capacity of the TV (and/or trailer hitch). If you then add and extension beyond the normal position of a trailer ball, the tongue weight of an attached trailer is exacerbated by the distance away from the fulcrum point (TV rear axle).

As an exaggerated example, let's say that you install a hitch extension that it 50' long. I would venture to say that if you put your trailer on that extension, the front wheels of the TV may come completely off the ground.

I'd sit down and do the exact math for you but I'm just too tired. It really isn't hard, You need your TV wheel base, the distance from the rear axle to the position of the normal position of a trailer ball, the distance of the extended trailer ball and all the weights involved in the modification. If you do the math, I think that you may be surprised how far over you TV ratings that you are (including your RAWR).

[chipperone1]

 Wavery, nit pickin is ok.  You agree with "Your TV in ten yrs old, what is the age/condition of the rear and even the front suspension? Maybe it is time to do something about that before you think airbags."  I understand towing has an effect on both axles.

  Exactly which one of the four statements that I made are not quite accurate?

 Have you ever seen a picture or diagram or scale on this site or any other that shows how to measure tongue weight other than from inside the coupler where the ball sits?

 The OP is taking about 3 bikes that weigh 90# total, I have never seen a bike rack that holds twelve bicycles.  And I said that    "The weight of the bikes + bike rack + tongue weight of the trailer will determine the size of the hitch that you should have on the TV" Of course if the twelve bikes exceeded the TW of the TV rating no matter how big the hitch was rated you would be SOL

  My statement should have included the weight of the WDH with the bikes, rack, and tongue to determine the size of the hitch on the TV, and for that I will stand corrected.

 If you have a WDH on the TV but dont have a trailer on the ball you have no tongue weight as far as a WDH is concerned because if you have nowhere to put the weight distributing lever arms you simply have a ball hitch.

 You know for sure when I hook up to my 50' long hitch extension I will be using my 48000# WDH ( I didn't do the math either)  and my front axle will be back on the ground.

 When you said    "when mounting anything behind the bumper"   did you mean behind the rear axle?

 I agree that leverage is involved with a towing setup and even more so with a WDH, could you point me to the formula? I would like to see how the numbers apply to me.

  My bottom line on this is to always weigh the rig and to load the axles within the rated limits.