Generator or something else?

[SilverEscape]

It's virtually impossible to get an electric site at a nice campground around here, unless you reserve in February (which we're not able to do as we don't know about vacation time until closer to summer). Even the first come/first serve electric site get scooped up in July and people stay for a month or two (and go back home during the week to work, using the first come/first serve like a seasonal site). So, every year for our vacation, we're left with going to the crappy camp sites so we can get an electric spot. This year, we'd really like to go some place nicer and figured we'd dry camp so we're not limited to an electric spot. We're going for 2 weeks, so I doubt the battery will last that long. I thought perhaps a generator would help us out?

Here's what we usually run:

• laptop in the evening for movie before bed or if it's raining outside
• charge batteries for two photo cameras and a video cam
• charge 3 cell phone batteries
• toaster oven - I can leave this at home
• kettle - I can buy a stovetop kettle for the propane stove
• electric cooler - used for drinks so I can replace this with cooler/ice
• hair dryer for the kids if it's cold outside after their shower - I can take the kids to the campground bathroom to dry their hair
• iPod dock/speakers for music (small boombox)
• lights
• furnace fan
• water pump - we have a sink and shower

We don't have A/C and we'll never own a microwave (don't have one at home either).

The Yamaha 1000iS is at the top of my list. I figured we could run it during the day (every couple days?) to charge the PUP battery (do we need anything special to do this? or will the DC cable that comes with the Yamaha be enough?) and charge any other batteries we need (cameras, laptop). Our vehicle also has a regular plug in addition to two 12-volt plugs, so we can charge any electronic devices without car chargers there and cell phones with car chargers.

Is there another alternative? I've read that solar *might* work for us? We need to pick something up TODAY, so it's got to be an easy set up. We're also in Canada, but get sun from about 4am to 9:00pm during the summer although we have rainy overcast days and we like to camp in sites with lots of trees. That might eliminate solar as an option?

I've read others talk about just using an inverter for the electronics instead of a generator? How would I power the inverter? and how would I charge the PUP battery if I did that?

The generator won't be running at night because if the PUP battery is charged, that will take care of our furnace fan. It won't run early mornings, because we're not up in the early morning.

Thanks for any advice!

[sully]

don't know too much about the charging of things - as I have understood some of the 'inverter' conversation - it is a car inverter plugged into the lighter when you are driving around. The best thing to do is eliminate the high wattage/power users: toaster oven, kettle, electric cooler, hair dryer (big drain there)... can the lights be converted to LED? You might be able to buy or "check out" some solar & borrow an electric meter to see what kind of wattage it puts out in the sun. I am still waiting for our PUP purchase, but my father-in-law is a big solar and energy nut... not even owning yet & we are exploring how to change the lights to LED and pricing solar panels... But I do wonder about the sun you get? Do the cells need heat or light (I'd just assumed lights) - my guess is the longer sun hours would make up for any lost 'intensity', but what do I know?

[Waterdoctor]

SilverEscape
I think if it were me, I'd opt for the generator. I don't have any experience with the Yamaha's, but have borrowed a friends' Honda 1000i. I only ran it during the day and just plugged my PUP into the thing and let the onboard converter charge my batteries up. I would think a 1000 watt geni would power the PUP's converter + most of the things on your list, with the possible exception of big power users like coffee makers, elect kettles, hair dryers and the like. For those you may need to step up to a 2000 watt geni.  With your 2 week trip coming up, I would venture to say the batteries won't last that long, especially if you're running laptops, iPods, etc.  I've read that the Honda geni's are the quietest around, but I've also heard good things about the Yamahas.  The spec sheet for the geni should have some info about the noise level (in db's), the lower the number, the quieter.

From what I know about the solar idea, it can get pretty $$$ as you try to generate enough power to run a whole bunch of stuff and charge batteries at the same time. My personal choice would be the geni. Plus, for solar panels to work efficiently, they have to be in direct sun (no shade), so without a/c, it can get pretty toasty in the PUP.

You shouldn't have to do anything special, except get a plug adapter for your PUP power cord to adapt the 30 amp service connection to 110 - standard 3 prong plug (about $5 at Wally-world). This is what most use when plugged in at home to keep things charged/powered up in the PUP.

An inverter will take 12 Vdc battery power and invert (change) it to 110 Vac. They work great, but put a huge drain on the battery and will discharge the battery in pretty short order. I've used a 400 watt inverter on occasion to power my laptop when out in the field at work, and drained the battery in my TV in about 1.5 hrs. I had to call a coworker (it only took 1 time) to come and jump my pickup so I could get back to the office. 

I hope this helps. Happy camping.

Steve 

[SilverEscape]

Thanks for the replies. The hubby just went to pick up a Yamaha EF1000iS. The few high wattage items we used can be easily replaced (buying a stove kettle today, taking ice cooler instead of electric, using hair dryer at the bath house instead of in trailer, leaving toaster oven at home). We really spend most of our time at the beach. We listen to music at lunch and in the evening, movie if it's raining and the cells aren't used for chatting but only for specific communication (i.e. older kid takes cell if she heads off to the park, family coming up to visit us need to find out directions, etc.) so it's likely they'll only need to be charged once or twice while we're there. The cameras will need to be charged the most.

I'm actually looking forward to dry camping; this is opening up a whole new world of camp sites for us! We were previously tent campers and love waking up to the chopping of wood and hearing people grill breakfast. Since we've been in electric sites, nobody seems to use wood and everybody eats breakfast in their trailer. We miss seeing people. :)

[gijoecam]

FYI, surf Ebay for some 12V battery chargers for your camera(s).  Enter your battery's model number and 'charger' and there are bound to be a few 12V chargers that come up...  I just bought one for my camera for $4, and it's dual voltage (110V AC or 12V DC)...  Nice and compact too.  :)

Have fun!

-Joe

[Outbound]

I'm currently in Algonquin, and looking at the park tabloid, its the first time I've noticed that every campground (including the periphery campgrounds like Achray and Brent) clearly has a "Generators are not permitted in the campground" notice.  I'm a bit surprised, but not terribly upset, about this.  I suppose that if we're dry camping and I need to charge the battery, I can always take it and the genny outside the campground and charge it there; makes me glad I bought the 40 amp charger when it was on sale.

I wonder if the no-genny-in-campgrounds rule will (or has become) a province-wide ban...

[Chuck S]

My little Honda EU1000iA2 kept my popup battery charged easily.  As noted do NOT use the 12v output to try to charge the battery.  12 volts is 43% charged and if that's all you're feeding the battery it won't get any higher.  You need 13.7v to even trickle charge the battery and voltages in the 14.5 -15.5 volt range to really charge it.  A good converter will handle this automatically.

These aren't silent but you may not get hassled running one during the noisy part of the day.

Passer-by:  "Is that your red gas can over by the woods?"
Chuck:  "That's not a gas can, it's my Honda generator."
Passer-by: "Ever run it?"
Chuck:  "It's running now."

Dialogue is fairly accurate.  Generator was at the end of a 50' extension cord.  Exhaust pointed into bushes.

-- Chuck

[chilipyro]

You made the right choice. The Yamaha 1000 is a great generator. Very quiet and easy to carry. Definitely add a three stage battery charger to your packing list. That will minimize the time you need to charge the battery (even give you the option of bringing the battery with you, to charge outside of the park). If you really can't use the generator somewhere, you can always take your battery with you, and drop it off at an auto shop for recharge, while you are at the beach for the day. Carrying a spare battery can be helpful too.

I'll add some other ideas to your power saving list:
- Use battery fluorescent lights instead of the lights in your trailer
- For cold camping, bring a Mr Buddy propane heater to warm the pup up in the morning and before bed, and pack extra blankets to keep everyone warm during the night. Some are OK with this heater running all night too, but for me, using that to heat up in the morning and before bed was enough (and I was nervous about running it while asleep).
- Upgrade your battery (group 27 or group 31 - or better, a pair of 6V golf cart batteries). You'll get a lot more useful hours than with the stock battery.

We carry a Honda 2000 when dry camping. It is comforting to know that it is there, but I prefer to go without as long as I can. It putters quietly while it is in use - a bit like having a car idling in the camp site with you (including the exhaust fumes). Late morning and early evening campground noise is almost always loud enough that you can't hear the generator running from the next site over. Still, I am always relieved with the resulting silence in our own camp site, when I shut it off.

[Unstable_Tripod]

I also recommend the Yamaha EF1000iS generator.  I use it with a battery charger, as previously discussed.  My DW uses a CPAP machine and we got an adapter to connect it to the PUP's batteries (I have two 80-amp batteries).  With CPAP use every night, some furnace activity (set low so only 3-6 times per night), water pump and light usage, we only needed to run the generator every third to fourth day.

I don't like generators and resisted getting one but DW had to have that CPAP.  The Yamaha is quiet but I still run it for as short a time as possible and only in the middle of the day.  I'd never run it in early morning or the evening because I don't like the intrusion.  Quiet is good but silent is better! 

[PopupModMike]

I have a Honda EU2000 which is so quiet I run it in CG's where they are prohibited. And they don't even hear it.

[denny02]

i have a honda 1000 watt runs everything but the air...600 dollars at camping world.

[gwh915]

While camping in the eastern Sierras this summer I ran across another camping using a Kipor inverter type generator. It was easily the quietest generator I have ever seen, or I should say heard. You practically had to be right next to it to hear it and you could still hold a normal conversation. Anyone else have experience with this brand?

http://www.amazon.com/Kipor-IG1000-1000-Inverter-Generator/dp/B000RUQN3Q/ref=sr_1_42?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1253413460&sr=1-42

[RANash]

Unstable Tripod, you mentioned that you use your generator with a battery charger. I was wondering exactly which battery charger you use and/or would recommend? Further, you just plug the battery charger right into the AC receptacle on the generator?

I'm very new to this and appreciate your help.

[Unstable_Tripod]

My battery charger is a Die Hard "Fully Automatic" charger which can operate at 50 amps, 10 amps or 2 amps.  I've had it around for a long time and it has worked just fine for me.  Yes, it plugs into the AC outlet on the generator.

[Lostdreamer]

Interesting question. I am currently sorting out the power in my unit, so I shall read with interest!

I can see the arument for solar generation actually - $600 can buy you 100w of solar and leave you a usefull amount of change.

How much of the batteries etc can be charged off an inverter in the car whilst you are driving around?

electric coolbox? The little 12v peltier things? Does that actually work? because the few times I have tried them, they have seemed ruddy useless...

What kindof draw does the furnace and water pump have?

The plan I am mulling over is having a demountable battery, and taking out of the unit and putting it in the car to recharge during the day.